How is it possible to use the words love and hate in the same sentence to describe the way you feel about someone? There have been people in my life that I have had a deep love for them, but sometimes they did hurtful things to me that made me hate them almost as deeply. When you have a relationship with someone, it can be the most frustrating feeling to be often walking that thin line between love and hate. I make no apologies for the fact that I am a very passionate person and my feelings are always to the nth degree, good or bad, happy or sad. So, for me, to hate someone that you love so much can be the most painful thing.
The dictionary or thesaurus will tell you that hate is the opposite of love. I disagree. I think that they are much closer than has been traditionally defined. I think that, often, indifference is the opposite of love. Think about it. If you are not emotionally invested in a relationship with someone, you are probably going to be indifferent to their behaviors or their thoughts or their feelings. Sure you can be angry at people that you have never met for their choices and, of course, I’m not talking about the hatred that people feel towards, for example, George Bush or Osama Bin Laden. I’m talking about the deep feelings of love and hate that can occur in relationships that are very important in your life.
What is this all about? My oldest child and her selfish, self-centered, irresponsibility and her disregard for her child. When I begged her, after her latest irresponsible act, to please think of Isabelle before she makes decisions or choices, she said, “No, I’ll think about ME!” Exactly. That’s what it is all about. It’s always about her. Her needs, her wants, her spotlight, her whatever. Ashley. That’s the only thing that matters. I love her. I really do. I see her attributes and her talents and how beautiful she is, probably even more than she does, but sometimes, I want to figuratively shake her until she sees the light. I get so angry and hateful towards her sometimes and then, of course, with that comes guilt for feeling that way.
People have always said to me, “It’s normal. It’s her age. She’ll grow out of it.” They don’t know her like I do. Besides, she’s 22 years old. She has a child. It is way past time for her to grow up and be responsible for herself, and especially for her daughter.
I’m not sure if this post will stay up for very long. We’ll see.
Shelli,
I wish I could reach through the screen right now and give you a big hug.
You and my Mom are in the same position, I think. Except it’s with my sister.
I would rather feel like this… at least then, I wouldn’t be TERRIFIED that I really am bordering on the brink of indifference with my sister. That breaks my heart more than, temporarily, hating her guts for what she’s doing right now. The heartbreak of everyone around her because of her actions.
The situations are a little different because your Ashley has a child and my Ashley does not. At least, not yet.
Have you given serious consideration to persuing custody of your grandchild? I know you’re probably shrinking away from the very thought, but honestly? She MAY grow out of this stage she’s in… or she may not. You can hope for the best. You can pray. You can keep talking to her and reaching out… she’s your daughter — I think you know best on how to handle her. But bottom line… while she’s growing up, if she can’t be bothered to make the decisions that are best for Isabelle… then maybe it’s not best for her to have her right now.
I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this. I know how much you worry about your family and take absolutely everything into your own heart. And I certainly don’t want to be adding more onto you by putting that thought out there… I just… well, it might be what it takes. Above and beyond what’s best for your grandbaby.
And trust me… you would not be the first, nor the last, parent to ever threaten or actually take, custody of a grandchild. My own parents had the same ultimatium thrown at them back in their drug years when I was still a baby.
Anyway…
*BIG HUGS*
If you need to talk, or vent, or someone to pray with or just listen or WHATEVER… you know how to get a hold of me.
I love you, sweet-heart Shelli!
I don;t know what to say Shelli, what advice to give, becuase I just assumed that my brother would grow up the day his child entered the world. That he would stop being a total asshole and be a better person for his daughters sake, that he would think rent and food were more important than a bigger and better stereo for his truck, that he would CARE.
but it didn\’t happen. His second daughter is here, she is six weeks old, so she isn\’t learning the bad habits of her parents yet, but I can see, already in their two year old, the heartbreak that is to come.
I assumed he would grow up when his child breathed her first breath because that is when I grew up, I turned into an adult the day the nurse handed me my son, but my brother didn\’t.
Not all kids grow up when they become parents, and its DAMN hard to stand back and watch.
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I can totally see why you would be so frustrated with this. Cuz that is what it is, I gather. You can see her good sides and know that she is capable of doing the right thing, she just isn’t doing it. And it’s such a waste because these years with Isabelle she is never getting back.. I would be as frustrated with her as you are, just because you can’t get that message thru her head… I am so sorry Hon…
I was just talking to someone close to me about some of his female relatives who are doing the same kinda thing at the same kinda age… It’s just a shame they don’t realize that the partying they are doing is not nearly as good for memories and feeling good at an old age as taking care of really important business is…
I wish I had advise for you. I never was like that so I have no clue what is going on in her mind… I hope she sees the light someday soon…
In the mean time, Isabelle has the greatest care she can ever wish for from you. You rawk as a grandma!
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I can imagine that you feel horrid having both the love and hate feelings toward your daughter and her actions.
That has to be really hard.
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I’m sorry to say that I know exactly how you feel about having feelings of both love and hate for your daughter, and for the same reasons. I’m even sorrier to say that am already at the stage when I often feel indifference, as well. While SG and I need a break once in a while, I don’t look forward to the weekends when my daughter takes Sparky. I do not enjoy her company. I consider it a good day when we are in the same room for more than 5 minutes without a disagreement.
I also have no real hopes that she’ll “outgrow” any of her self-centeredness. I feel that a lot of it is because she has bi-polar disorder and can’t help it. I think the rest of it is because she wants to be self-centered and uses her disorder as justification.
Other than recommending you get custody of Belle if you can, I have no real advice for you. I don’t expect to ever have a close relationship with my daughter again, and I’ve reached the point that I’m not sure I even want one anymore. But I do know what you’re going through and understand.
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I agree that love and hate are more similar than different. You can hate those you love simply because you love them. They matter. And when they disappoint you over and over… that love splits in two I think.
You can only do the best you can do. Be there for her, be there for Belle. There’s only so much you can do to counter genetics (not your half, of course).
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The hardest thing to realize is that sometimes it doesn’t “work out”. They don’t always “grow out of it” and everything isn’t necessarily “fine”.
And somehow, some way, we cling to faith in the middle of that.
XO
I hate that you have this in your life right now.
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I also came to the conclusion that love’s opposite is indifference, not hate.
My thoughts were pretty well covered by the others before I got here. So, I am sending a big {{Shelli & Isabelle}}. And prayers for Ashley to make the changes she needs to make.
I’m so sorry that you are going through this, Shel. I have no advice, just love and hope for a good outcome. (L)
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Amber–We would assume custody for her in a heartbeat. We’ve even proposed it to Ashley several times. To paraphrase, she’s said, “Over my dead body.” Unfortunately, until she does something to physically hurt Isabelle or put her in harms way, we have no legal leg to stand on. Neglect is a very hard thing to prove.
Blue–I grew up long before Ashley was born. I was very independent and even helped to raise my brothers quite a bit because my Mom traveled and my Dad worked sun up to sun down, which in the summer was quite a lot. But for sure, when I found out I was pregnant with her, she was all I could think of and I put her at the front of every single decision I made. She probably saved my life in that regard. I left her abusive father because I was pregnant.
I don’t understand her. I don’t understand why she never wants to be with Isabelle. I don’t understand why she doesn’t want her to have the very best. I don’t understand why she can’t ever put Isabelle first. It’s very frustrating and sad.
Dutchy–I never was like that, either. It is soo frustrating. My 2 greatest concerns (other than Isabelle’s safety, of course) is that a) she will “wreck” Isabelle and b) she is wrecking any hope of having a decent relationship with her daughter. Of course she blames me for the way she is. I was a shitty mother and didn’t do a very good job so how can I do a good job with her child. I know that is subterfuge and that it just allows her to keep from looking at herself and taking responsibility for herself and her actions. It’s easier to blame someone else. It still hurts.
Sandi–It really is. It’s a guilty, horrible, frustrating feeling.
Blogarita–When you said:
I know exactly what you mean. I dread when I know I am going to have to spend any length of time with her.
Also, when you said:
I could relate to that, too, except Ashley isn’t there yet. She won’t even admit she has a problem. I think, and maybe it’s just wishful thinking, that if she got on some medication, she could be better. Maybe not. I guess it doesn’t really matter until she finally realizes, if that happens, and gets help.
Unless Ashley comes to the realization that she can be more free without Isabelle or she doesn’t have anyone else who will pick up the slack for her (by this, I mean when she has Isabelle because usually, she is living with someone who takes care of Isabelle when she is sleeping or manic or irresponsible) then she will continue to use Isabelle as a means of control over us. (IE; “If you don’t this or that, I’ll take Isabelle away and you’ll never see her again.” Usually, this is an unspoken threat, but she did actually say it this past weekend.)
Finn–Exactly! Why am I not surprised that you get that completely?
I am going to try to just keep being here. My hope is that sooner or later, Ashley will just give up. Either she’ll give up Isabelle or she’ll give up her stance that there is nothing wrong with her mental health and she’ll get help.
Britt–Me too.
I’m going to just document everything, be here for Isabelle and for Ashley, too, if she ever comes for help and that’s about all I can do. And pray.
Thanks.
Peggy–Thank you. It means a lot.
MM–I know. Sometimes it’s just enough to write it all down and have people say reassuring things. It helps to know that there are people out there thinking about us.
Wow….just wow. I feel like you’re describing the relationship between my mother and I, without the grandchild in danger.
::nerve touched::
I wish you lots of love and faith to get you though this…and especially for Ashley because she’s young enough to change her life to benefit her daughter and her family, including momma.
You’re awesome, Shelli!
Shelli I hope things will get better for you and your family. I have never been in a situation to yours so it is hard for me to relate. However I do know what BiPolar is, and it is a very destructive disease if left untreated. Just let your daughter and grandaughter know that they are loved.
Take Care, PeggyG
Oh wow, my heart just aches for you and Isabelle, and Ashley. I hope that soon she can get her act together and understand that she needs to be the parent now, and if she doesn’t want to be the parent, then she needs to give that responsibility to someone who does. It’s not fair to Isabelle to be in a upside down world, where one day it’s this way, and the next something different.
Many hugs to you… may the answer come soon.
Robin–I’m not sure if you mean that you are the irresponsible child or that your Mom is the one who acts that way. Or, if it’s just that you don’t have a great relationship with her. Whatever the case, it’s frustrating, I know. I think that the mother/daughter relationship can be inherently difficult and then if you ad stress on top of it, sometimes it can be impossible. Also, I hoped this helped you in some way.
PeggyG–For sure I let Isabelle know everyday. It’s hard to get close enough to Ashley to let her know. Have you ever tried to hug a porcupine? It’s harder than that.
LOL Imagine your most resistant teenager who doesn’t want PDA from his parents in front of his friends. Then, multiply it by 100. That’s Ashley. That’s also very frustrating.
Fantastagirl–
That’s an awesome way to explain it and so very accurate.
Thanks for the hugs!
Shelli- Don’t for one moment buy into her crap that you were a “shitty mother”. I think the preponderance of evidence is on your side (2 to 1)! When you feel yourself falling into that trap, look at Emily and Sam; go get a hug or 10; and remember the problem is in her and not in you. I know, Moms are supposed to be able to fix everything, but ultimately, when they are supposed adults, all we can do is stand by waiting for them to fix themselves.
That sucks…
Hello, I was reading your page and I felt the need to comment and only because I have lived simular experiences. I am not sure what your daughetr is going through but I can try and give you some words ofadvice from the other corner of what your daughter may be going through. My daughter was taken by my parents 4 years ago. I did many things that I can’t mention on the interent. I still have regret to this day. Many of us get cought up in Many of us get caught up in our surroundings. For me, I got pregnant young. I had my daughter at 20 years old and I never got to experience growing like everyone else. Every one around me was partying, staying out late, doing drugs and I felt as if I was missing out on something. Not to mention I had a terrible relationship with my daughters father and he was very mentally and physically abusive. He got worse as we did more partying together. Before we could catch it or even really realized how out of control we were my parents stepped in at took my child. I can honestly say just because I was partying doesn’t make me a bad mother, it just means I was making bad choices. I have loved my daughter with all my heart ever since the day she was born and the love is growing stronger as the days go on. I admit to my fault and my wrong choices and at that point in my life I was unable to care for her, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t love her because I did. I was so out of control I didn’t know a way out and I was trapped in a secluded box. When my parents took my child it was like a reality hit. I saw I was living in my own fantasy. I realized I needed to change or I would never be able to have my daughter again. Since that day, the most heart breaking day in which I fell to my knees unable to breath, I have pulled myself together, and I have never left my daughters side. I have been there fighting for her to come home to me. Its been 4 years later and I have been straight as pins and needles for all of the 4 years, and my parents are still fighting to keep her. I have proved to everyone that I am a capable, loving, responsible mother who would do anything for her. I have done everything the courts have asked me to do. I have done everything my parents wanted me to do, and know as I am getting older and wiser I realize it’s a control thing with my family. If you are going to get your grandchild the only thing to really remember is that, if your daughter pulls herself together please don’t do what my parents have done to me ( I didn’t even go into detail) and try and keep my daughter and live their life as though they have a second chance to fix their mistakes they made with me through her. Don’t make your daughter feel worthless, help her and never give up on her. Love her and let her know that you are not leaving her and she is able to see her daughter when ever she wants. I have a terrible relationship with my family and I wish it was different. Please staty positive and give lots of love and support to your daughter through her trials in life.
The last comment impressed me so much. When you face such situations in your life, you have so many things to think over. I can’t even imagine that parents can do such terrible things to their daughter. I’m so sorry. I wish everything will change and you will bring up a healthy and happy daughter.
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